Talk:Force power

Malacia

Malacia redirects to this page despite it being an important degenerative abnormality in humans - http://snomed.vetmed.vt.edu/sct/SCT_Out.cfm?SCT_ConceptID=35828005. Could someone please edit the redirection page so that we can start a separate article on it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.122.2.144 (talk • contribs)

The wonderful thing about Wikipedia is that you can make that change. I for one am hesitant to break the redirect until there's some actual content to put on the Malacia page. I'd recommend registering and then creating the article in your sandbox (User:your_username/whatever). EVula 14:56, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Immunity

I thought that Toydarians and Hutts are immune to Mind Trick, but someone has deleted the reference, commenting that the are NOT immune. However in Episode I Watto says that the tricks don't work on him and then refers to his species, indicating that it's his nature that's immune... Jabba in VI says he is immune also, although it's not clear if it's because of himself, or his species. --62.74.3.28 09:55, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

I believe that the Han Solo Trilogy states that it is a species-wide Hutt property, and given the way Watto says it ("I'm a Toydarian, mind tricks don't work on me"), that seems to be clearly a species-wide property as well. --maru 14:26, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Sidious' powers

With all due respect to 62.74.5.15, I disagree that Sidious's powers should be classified under "Mind Control". While indeed Palpatine may be capable of that feat, his personal manipulation and political maneuvering fall into an entirely different category.

This is the definition of the "Mind Control" power:

Mind Control - Rarely used, this is a very powerful Force move. A more advanced form of "Persuasion/Suggestion" allowing one to enter another's mind and control brain activity

Palpatine was able to foresee the future with startling accuracy, which is one of the reasons his multiply layered and highly sophisticated grand strategies worked. This knowledge of the future, gained through the force, did not involve mind control. Similarly, his manipulative feats depended not on brute force control but instead on psychological insight and force telepathy. He was able to peer into Anakin's mind, for example, and discover his secrets (including Padme). He then exploited this knowledge to get what he wanted, using only his personal charisma and cunning. Throughout ROTS, he carefully modeled his attitude, composure, and language to what was required for eliciting desired reactions out of others (be they Anakin or the Senate). This talent was touched upon by Obi-Wan in AOTC, when he noted that Palpatine was especially apt at taking advantage of the prides and prejudices of the people. I wouldn't be surprised if Sidious used mind control to sway key Senate votes; nevertheless, he is able to convince Anakin and others to do his bidding willingly, making his domination over them all the more complete.

I humbly suggest that this power of Sidious be returned to a category to which it is better suited (involving the use of the force to perceive the present, future, and all aspects thereof, including the thoughts and feelings of sentients). --67.87.234.103 02:59, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

Hmm- check out the Jerec article; while you're therem consider the possibility that Palpatine was a master of Battle Meditation, another rare, powerful Force talent. --maru 14:26, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It's true Palpatine's succcess in Ep III had more to do with the ability to sense the future than mind control but Palpatine also had mind controlling powers too. Just not demonstrated in Ep III but mentioned in many different RP books for example. -- Solberg 20:01, 12 July 2006 (UTC)Solberg

List of Lightning users

Why is it that there is a list of those who can use force lightning? It doesn't make any sense. --Dr. B 07:58, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Because it just interested some anons. --Maru (talk) Contribs 17:30, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

So why is it just force lightning? There should either be a list for every force power, or a list for none of them. besides, if people want to find out what a certian force user can do, cant' they just check the individual jedi/sith? Dr. B 04:55, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

No, they can't just check. Force powers are rarely mentioned in the abilities sections. --Maru (talk) Contribs 23:10, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Well, there ought to be something done about this. I think it looks odd with just the one list at the bottom. Adding a similar list for every force power like that one at the end might make the article a little long, so what if a separate page was made, that only existed to list what power each jedi has?Dr. B 16:04, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

The real reason is because there are so many Plo Koon fanboys who want to show how exceptional he is. (No offense to Plo Koon.) Solberg 05:57, 15 December 2005 (UTC) Solberg

What if someone were to go through each of the powers, and after each of them, put a list of jedi known to use that power? Example for list of Jedi/Sith who can use the Force Lightning ability, listed after the end of the main section:

The following Jedi/Sith are known to be able to use Force Lightning - Darth Revan, Darth Malak, Jedi Exile, Darth Traya, Darth Nihilus, Darth Sion, Plo Koon, Quinlan Vos, Count Dooku (Darth Tyranus), Emperor Palpatine (Darth Sidious), Asajj Ventress, Joruus C'Baoth, Tavion, Luke Skywalker, Jacen Solo, Jaina Solo, Kyp Durron, Kyle Katarn, Mara Jade, Kadann, Desann, Jaden Korr, Rosh Penin

It would allow all the force powers to have people who can use it listed, and it wouldn't take up too much space (I don't think)Dr. B 07:26, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

I reorganized the page slightly; there is now a separate Notes section, with the Force Lightning users being listed under it.

If every single noted user of *every* power is listed, the article will balloon badly; if every user is listed, I'd suggest breaking out each of the three sections into their own articles (with the current note about Vader going on the Dark Side Force Powers page). EVula 01:02, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Disorganized

Th\is article is kinda unorganized, the problem is mainly that various powers are redundant and are just specialized techniques that of popular reference, I would suggest someone should take the time to organize this article a little better.

I agree. Also, I think that we should ALWAYS add examples of when a power was used, it is important to cite examples so that these can be checked, and so no one can just make stuff up. Solberg 06:26, 15 December 2005 (UTC) Solberg

removed this section

It is clear that Emperor Palpatine used Force Lightning to demonstrate his power of the darkside over Luke's lightside. As seen in the movie he uses the power to strike Luke's body five times to punish him for his lack of vision until The Emperor tells him his last phrase: "Now young Skywalker... You will die". In the novelization of Return of the Jedi, after Luke was first hit with Palpatines Force Lighting, he realized that if it was Force-generated, it could be Force-repelled. Using the Absorb/Dissipate skill, he raised his hand and was able to deflect Palpatines bolts away from him at first. But Palpatine increased the strength of the bolts and they soon overcame Luke's strong yet fledgling powers in the Force. That is when the Emperor said his famous line, "Your feeble skills are no match for the power of the dark side". According to some fans, this scene demonstrated why the Emperor was afraid of Luke's powers. In only six months of training he was able to do something that, as far as is known, only Yoda was able to do, which is to deflect his Force lighting.

This paragraph deals more with Palpatine's apprehension of Luke than just Force Lightning, so I've removed it. I'm not too sure where to put it, most likely either on the Luke or the Palpatine page, probably with some modifications. Just sort of saving it here for now. It's good to post examples of people using a certain Force power, but don't get carried away with doing an exposition on it or something.  ;) -- Solberg 23:23, 19 December 2005 (UTC)Solberg

Example and citation

From now on, if anyone adds any "force powers" that aren't well known, and yet haven't been cited, I will remove them promptly. Whenever adding a new power, cite a specific time it was used, and who used it. If it was used in a book, or is an ability in the D20 RPG or a computer game, please mention this. Thanks. -- Solberg 04:12, 21 December 2005 (UTC)Solberg

Note that several uncited powers already in the article were recently removed. These include but are not limited to "Force Field," "Teleportation," "Ray," etc. If these are real powers, please cite them and then re-add them to the article, until then they will remain removed. Thanks. -- Solberg 16:57, 26 December 2005 (UTC)Solberg

I'm removing "KILL", unless I see a source that says Han Solo could use the Force... Counterfit 05:53, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I think that's a fairly safe call. ;) EVula 14:43, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Farsight

Can someone give me an example of a time when a power called "Farsight" conveyed information about the future, as is currently claimed in the article? I know Farsight was a power in the computer game Mysteries of the Sith, but I remember that it was used much as one would use a "Wizard's Eye" in D&D. That is, it relayed real time information on what was happening, like a spy, it didn't reveal anything about the future (although you could infer information based on present occurrences.) If nobody finds any evidence for this, I'll remove that part of the description under Farsight since the ability to sense the future is already mentioned in the article. Thanks. -- Solberg 16:55, 26 December 2005 (UTC)Solberg

    In ROTS palpatine knows that vader is "in Trouble" when he is on Mustafar so would that be an example?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.206.172.45 (talk) 04:14, 5 December 2007 (UTC) 

Variations of powers

In many computer games, there are variants of Force Powers, generally some that are meant to be in a higher tier than others. For example, in Knights of the Old Republic, Force Aura is upgraded to Force Shield and then to Force Armor. I'm not too sure how to show that these are actually the same power, just with strengthened effects. One way to do this would be to have all names of a power in the title:

Example:

Force Aura / Shield / Armor

But that seems a bit clunky and it may confuse people into thinkings that "Force Aura" and "Force Armor" are equivalent when that's not quite true-- they are the same power, with Armor being the more effective version.

Another choice would be to only mention the first stage or last stage of the power in the title, and then speak of the rest casually in the description. This is cleaner, but perhaps also confusing in the sense that those scanning the title will not see "Force Shield," as if it's missing.

Example: Force Valor - This potent ability increases the physical and mental attributes of the user and all allies around him for a very brief period. The greater the expertise of the user, the stronger the effect. Yoda is often considered to be the most skilled user of this power. This ability appears in the game Knights of the Old Republic.

(Goes Force Valor -> Knight Valor -> Master Valor); I mention that greater aptitude results in greater effect in the description, but is this sufficient or should actual names be specified?

Without any clear guideline on this, I have tried all sorts of ways of breaking these additional variants into the article, including but not limited to the two methods above. Any further suggestions on how to proceed? -- Solberg 17:59, 26 December 2005 (UTC)Solberg

Darth Sidious' deformation via Sith Lightning

My theory behind Darth Sidious' facial deformation, after seeing a friend play a Star Wars Jedi/Sith duelling game (I forget its name, unfortunately) is that a practictioner of the Force can only use it so long before they have to recuperate, and Sith Lightning requires a huge influx of Force energy. Darth Sidious cast Sith Lightning for an extremely long period of time, immediately after duelling Mace Windu, hence drew on more Force energy than he was naturally capable of... doing this then drew from his own life force, which could have contributed to his deformation that made him look somewhat half-dead. That is my theory anyway.

WhiteCrane 11:58, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Not really a new theory (see Force Body in the Core Powers section) but it needs to be backed by a source before it can be incorporated into Wikipedia. -- Solberg 08:07, 29 June 2006 (UTC)Solberg

i think it's just that he severly underestimated Mace's abilites and because of the dark side's Corrosive Nature he used all the dark energy he could muster or mace windu was deflecting it back at him or my favorite is that he allowed himself to be aged knowing that it would persuade Vader to help him defeat Windu. All the time that his masters power would in the end undo his ageing after him and vader would be able to master it in a book by steve perry named SHADOWS OF THE EMPIRE vader talks about animating some of his dead cells little by little —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.206.172.45 (talk) 04:30, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Sidious's power of life

It was stated in the explanation of the force power of Darth Plagueis that Darth Sidious was partially using this power to sustain his extream longevity. I would just like to point out that Darth Sidious only lived to be 86 years old. Which, while it is old, is not extremely old that it would require the force by any means. Therefore, I deleted that sentence. --Voicingmaster 03:59, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Can't Darth Maul do Force Lightning?

Force Crush

I have to make note that the use of Force Crush did not first appear in Knights of the Old Republic 2. It actually first appeared in the TIE Fighter cutscene where Vader used it to crush Admiral Harkov. Although not directly shown, if I remember it correctly, Admiral Harkov was first shown to be levitating, the scene cuts to Vader saying "Now pay the price for your treachery", we saw Vader clenching his fist and the obvious/distinct sound of something being crushed; and finally the heavy sound of a body hitting the floor.

Based from all descriptions of this power, that is definitely the use of Force Crush. -- Andrea75

Possibly but there's no way to know for sure. The first official appearance would seem to be TSL unless you have a source that says otherwise. -- Solberg 00:42, 12 July 2006 (UTC)Solberg

Noted. As for written source, I don't think TIE Fighter explicitly mentions it but the picture of Harkov being done in by Vader is certainly a spot-on characteristic of Force Crush as well as the definite sound of bones being crushed. I'm putting the link from Wookieepedia - the picture in question is here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Harkov-ForceCrush-TIEFighter-Cutscene.png -- Andrea75 17:56, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Content

I know I will be shot down by the fans but is a detailed discussion of the rules of a game really an appropriate subject for an encyclopedia? Surely this (and related) pages should just have a couple of lines saying that the game exists plus maybe a bit about the history and include a link to an external fan site. I would certainly not expect to see a debate over the details of 'Force Crush' appearing in a traditional encyclopedia.

I don't think the discussion is here really detailed at all. We have a general description and a name for Force Crush. If we really wanted to, we could add in way more detail, including the amount of damage expected to be dealt from a Force Crush, saving rolls against Force Crush, a picture of Force Crush in action (available from the TSL trailer), etc. Anyway, this isn't a traditional encyclopedia. In a "traditional encyclopedia," you wouldn't expect to see an article on "tubgirl" either. -- Solberg 23:37, 16 July 2006 (UTC)Solberg

Saving rolls and damage are game mechanics, and non-canon. --maru (talk) contribs 01:22, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I didn't say they were. -- Solberg 22:50, 17 July 2006 (UTC)Sol

Can't Darth Maul do Force Lightning?

"Vader's Limitation"

"Force Lightning requires an intact hand to direct and generate. Having lost both of his, any attempt by Vader to generate it would electrocute his life-support system -- which is ultimately what kills him in Episode VI."

Now this may just be me and my wacky ideas, but it seemed to me when I was watching the movie that it was the Emperor blasting Vader with lightning as he fell down that shaft that mortally wounded Vader. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.139.89.194 (talk • contribs)

The Emperor was blasting Vader with lightning, which electrocuted his life-support system. You're only a little bit wacky. ;) EVula 00:00, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

FWIW, from Star Wars Betrayal (pg 364 hardcover 1st printing): ""The Force is the energy of the living...for true Mastery inf the Force, light side or dark side, you have to be mostly organic...." Jacen frowned. "Wait. That means that Darth Vader could never have become the Lord of the Sith... a true Master." "That's correct. I'm not sure he ever understood that. He might not have cared. He was numbed by tragedy...."" (The second speaker here is obviously Lumiya). --maru (talk) contribs 00:19, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Life creation and biological immortality

So anyways I was researching SW stuff for a post-KoTOR rpg, and something struck me as odd....

Isn't life creation and biological immortality the same thing as what what Bastila used to keep Darth Revan alive in Knights of the Old Republic?

"...Used to force to preserve the flicker of life within your body"

...Sounds the same to me. -JediMutant

You said you played KOTOR. How is your quote not descriptive of a range of lightside healing powers such as revitalize or cure, etc? -- Solberg 09:47, 16 August 2006 (UTC)Solberg

Extra pages

Should we really have separate "main" pages for Morichro, Battle Meditation, Force Meld, etc? None of these abilities are mainstream (in contrast to Telepathy for example), none of them appear explicitly in the official movies, none of them are displayed frequently within SW books and games, and outside of the SW community are totally obscure . Furthermore, there is not enough information on these force powers to warrant "main articles," in my opinion. I think a case can be made for Jedi Mind Trick which is very famous outside of the 'hardcore' SW community but most of the other stuff just doesn't need that much space. I move that we merge the above extraneous pages like Morichro into this page. Any objections before I try to start the process? -- Solberg 06:58, 23 September 2006 (UTC)Solberg

I agree with this. Most of those pages are on the edge of violating WP:WAF anyway, as they describe a bit too much from an in-universe perspective. They should be trimmed quite a bit when they are merged into this article. EVula 07:17, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, although this article as well could use a bit of editing for WP:WAF. I think I will wait a few days (5 per WP:Merge) before I do any merging, so that anyone who disagrees can voice the problems with this proposal. -- Solberg 07:30, 23 September 2006 (UTC)Solberg

Merge complete, anyone who has any problems with the way they were merged can edit the page or voice dissent. -- Solberg 02:14, 28 September 2006 (UTC)Solberg

Speculations

How much speculation is too much speculation?

I trimmed out some of the stuff but I'm not sure how much I should remove. Here's an example:

Battle Meditation-- This power can influence the course of an entire battle, raising the morale of allies, and sapping the will to fight from enemies. The most prominent people to master this ability were Nomi Sunrider and Bastila Shan. It has been speculated that Palpatine used this power for his fleet during the Battle of Endor and with his death, the shock of the sudden removal of this influence threw the fleet into chaos and allowed the Rebel fleet to defeat them; it is far more likely though that the Grand Admiral Nial Declann was the Battle Meditator, as Palpatine was occupied with turning Luke Skywalker to the Dark Side. Palpatine may have used this power to in the events leading up to the Clone Wars and the Battle of Coruscant to dampen the force connection of the entire Jedi Order, leading to Mace Windu's admission that the Jedi's ability to use the force was "diminished." After the Great Jedi Purge it was Jedi Master Luke Skywalker who rediscovered and studied from an abandoned Ossus Jedi book the technique in the Dark Empire comic series. In the New Jedi Order series, Anakin Solo rediscovered Battle Meditation and reshaped it into what appears to be a variant of a technique called Force Meld.

The speculations regarding Palpatine seem fair but do they belong? Any opinions on how much the article should speculate on who has what power or did what with it? -- Solberg 02:08, 28 September 2006 (UTC)Solberg

Edit: Incidentally, a lot of powers on the list in light/dark/neutral haven't been confirmed to be light/dark/neutral. Would it make sense to create an "unknown alignment" category for those powers that we aren't sure of? Force Meld for example does not seem like it should be necessarily light. Its cousin Battle Meditation is confirmed as neutral, and Force Meld itself is usually used post original trilogy, when there weren't many dark jedi, so saying "well no dark jedi use it so it must be light" doesn't work. Also, some powers that were minted in the Mysteries of the Sith game are debatable because in that game there was no alignment, all powers were treated the same (in contrast to the more famous predecessor Jedi Knight 2: Dark Forces II). There are some other things but I can't think of them right now. Any comments on this? -- Solberg 02:23, 28 September 2006 (UTC)Solberg

New Edit: Okay, if nobody has any objections, I'll create a new alignment section "Unknown" next weekend to hold powers that we don't know for sure are light, neutral, or dark. -- Solberg 05:59, 10 October 2006 (UTC)Solberg

Force Lightning "distinction"

To be blunt, I recommend removing the Force Lightning practitioners section. My rationale is as follows:

• (1) There are so many characters capable of Force Lightning in modern Star Wars canon that it is not particularly distinctive anymore
• (2) It creates issues for video game characters, which may or may not necessarily learn Force Lightning (i.e. player characters)
• (3) There is no reason to create such a list for Force Lightning, instead of for example Dissipate (used by Yoda, Obi-Wan, and Windu vs Force Lightning).

My proposal-- remove the entire section, and integrate important key exceptions (Luke's "Emerald Lightning," Plo Koon's "Electric Judgment", etc) as well as the note on Vader's limitation into the main article or into the respective characters' articles. No assumptions should be made about the Exile or Revan (both vidoe game player characters) regarding Force Lightning or any other power not explicitly known to have been used according to other media.

If nobody has any problem with this, I will remove the section next weekend. -- Solberg 02:11, 30 October 2006 (UTC)Solberg

Done. Moved Force Lightning to its own page --> Force Lightning, incidentally. Couldn't find a way to integrate Vader's limitation into the Darth Vader article, which is already too long. So into Force Lightning it goes. Probably the most relevant there anyway. -- Solberg 00:10, 6 November 2006 (UTC)Solberg

Force Absorption (or lack thereof!)

Ok, where is this idea of absorbing appear. Clearly, if you watch attack of the clones (and revenge of the sith for that matter) yoda does not absorb the lightning at all. Here's what happens...(watch the movie if you dont believe me!)

   1. Tyranus gets tired of throwing objects (machinery, rocks...etc.) at yoda and with the statement, I have become more powerful than any jedi; even you, he launches his first assult of lightning at yoda.

   2. Undeterred,yoda raises his hand and catches it. (the reason you can tell it is caught is because yoda then throws it back at him; Yoda would not have been able to return something he absorbed, and he certainly did not create it.)

   3. Yoda returns thanks in the form of tyranus's lighting, which he effortlessly deflects.

   4. Tyranus then launches a longer volley of lighting which yoda deflects not absorbs. (Watch the scene carefully; yoda stands in the forground with his back to you and tyranus farther back. Yoda deflects, 'turns aside', the lighting and it radiates away into the surroundings.)

In the same way, Yoda catches the lightning Sidious generates towards him, then risking his own life, blasts it like a thunderbolt back at him. (and they both fly off the Senate seat.) Now truthfully, Where is any amount of lightning absorbed?! In conclusion, should this not be changed? Mace Windu 03:14, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Force Absorb is a power from Jedi Knight 2: Dark Forces 2. Dissipate Energy is the closest Star Wars D20 equivalent I believe. Of course, the movies don't ever refer to the powers like this. The Force Powers list is a combination of various sources (the movies, the novels, the D20 system, the CRPG games, the FPS games, the comics, various television series, etc), which often conflict. Whenever possible, I've tried to squeeze them together, and if there is a contradiction, resolve it in favor of the higher canon. I haven't paid much attention to this page lately though so I'm sure there is stuff that is no longer sensible-- feel free to go around correcting stuff. Just be sure to explain an edit in the edit summary. With regards to your specific question, there isn't really much proof that Yoda, in Ep 3, used any of the Force Powers mentioned here. Remember, the movie never formalizes the powers. The reason it's highly likely that Yoda uses Force Absorb or Dissipate Energy is that these are the only ones we know of in formalized systems (like D20) that could possibly explain what happened. There is no way to redirect force attacks in D20 or JK2 if I remember correctly. If you feel uncomfortable with this, you could change the section to read: "Yoda may(<--- diff here) have used Force Absorb when <blah blah blah>" which would be more correct, because it is not known what exactly he used. Quite frankly this entire page is in need of a cleanup to sort out conflicts but I haven't found anyone who knows enough different Star Wars lore from different sources to do it. I'm just trying my best to keep it from spiraling into a total mess. -- Solberg 03:41, 17 January 2007 (UTC)Solberg

Appreciate your response...But here's a thought. If your serious about this, use wookiepedia if you haven't already. So much more professional. Besides, anyone looking for Star wars info here won't know if its wrong! Mace Windu 00:31, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Problem is that wookiepedia isn't necessarily accurate either... I don't doubt that the people there are more passionate about cleaning up the pages though. I've checked out the site before, I'll probably go give it another look and try to clean up more inconsistencies here if the wookie seems correct. Feel free to do some serious editing yourself, just be sure to cite a reason in the edit summary. -- Solberg 03:15, 25 January 2007 (UTC)Solberg

Spiritual Ascension

If I recall correctly, Qui Gon Jinn discovers this after having been killed, Obi Wan discorporates his physical body before Vader can kill him (though to Luke it looks like he was vapourized by the lightsaber), and we don't see Yoda do it, so either he did it after dying of old age like Qui Gon or chose to do it before death like Obi Wan. Apparently Vader/Anakin does this after dying similar to Qui Gon. The reason you don't see Qui Gon with the three spirits who appear to Luke at the end is simply because he's had no interactions with the boy.

Why isn't this listed? I think listing it with close mentions to the life perpetuation ability of the Sith would be good, showing how one pursues longevity through the spirit and the other through the flesh. Perhaps it is seen as more benign because it leaves place in physical reality for new life, rather than continuing to live and taking up resources (and perhaps life force as a cost from other beings, common thing for Sith). Tyciol 18:45, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

To separate universes

Maybe there is a better way to organize this page. Rather than separating by alignment (light, dark, etc), we could separate by universe. (Though it is possible that within each universe, we could separate by alignment).

Quick rough sketch:

The Movies

...

The Star Wars Books

- This book

- That book

- Etc

...

The D20

...

The Star Wars Comics

...

The Star Wars Cartoons

- Clone Wars series

...

The Star Wars TV Series

(if it ever becomes anything)

The reason there is a lot of convoluted speculation and conflict on this page is because of the different structure of the Force in each universe. Just because there is a "Neural" overload power in the D20 system doesn't mean it also exists in the books, or in the movies. Just because we are told that Palpatine could create "storms" of space/time in the novels doesn't mean this was an option in the movies or even that Palpatine has this power in the movies. (Furthermore, much of the powers used in the movies and novels are NOT named. It is disingenuous to try to associate them with named powers from the games and D20 RPG system.) And so on. By dividing into separate universes, we can reduce the contradictions in this article and the rampant speculation (much of which is still present in the article).. We'll be able to show reasonable "slices" of characters, provided by different perspectives (eg in this universe, Palpatine has this power, however in that universe he ...; Cure works this way in that universe, however, in the other one it...). What does everyone think? If there are no objections, I'll put this on my "to do list" (I suspect it will be a big undertaking-- I'll probably end up doing it a few weeks from now; someone else could start before me though). -- Solberg 01:21, 27 August 2007 (UTC)Solberg

Various levels of cannon

This article seems to treat all aspects of Star Wars, from movies to video games, as equal. Shouldn't we make some distinction between what is demonstrated in the movies and what was latter added in games and books? This would help with the clutter; it seems like just a long repetitive list of force powers. Sonicsuns (talk) 06:53, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

I would have to concur. After all, this is Wikipedia, not Wookieepedia. Jachra (talk) 09:59, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Force pushes collide.JPG

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BetacommandBot (talk) 06:45, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Fixed. Earthbendingmaster (talk) 03:14, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

edit warring to redirect this article.

There have been repeated efforts to redirect this article, by a banned editor, User:Fredrick day. His block-evading sock, User:Allemandtando, originally User:Killerofcruft, began the process, hence his references to prior work. Edits from 87.112-87.115 to this article will almost certainly be Fredrick day, that his preferred IP, but he uses others. If this becomes too much of a nuisance, the article can be semiprotected. If he is expressing legitimate concerns, they should be addressed, but he has no right to edit this article or even to comment here. I'm neutral on the content issue here, I'm not involved and have no opinion about it, and only saw this because Fredrick day had added one of his common harassing edits elsewhere using the IP he recently used here. Edits from Fredrick day may normally be reverted on sight, but be aware that he sets traps, editing articles on porn stars to remove improperly or weakly sourced material, and restoration of this can be considered to violate WP:BLP policy. --Abd (talk) 06:44, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

still following me from article to article, eh? I thought I was suppose to be stalking you? not the other way around? funny how it has to be you who does the reverting.... --87.115.5.98 (talk) 17:51, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Both of you, please give it a rest. I think I speak for 48,475,494 others here. – iridescent 17:58, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, I'm not a sock and I support the redirect: this article is trivial plot summary. The groupings by light-/dark-side alignment is largely OR, and many of the individual right-ups contain speculation and unsubstantiated inferences. There are no specific citations, and the handful of references are not sufficient to address all the stuff here. This is exactly the kind of article that is appropriate at Wookieepedia but doesn't belong here. So. Is there a compelling argument to retain this article? Or can I restore the redirect as a good-/better-faith edit? --EEMIV (talk) 02:36, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

when I did the redirect, I did write the decent content into the force article. We don't need an article that just labels TK as 94 different powers. --87.115.11.174 (talk) 07:16, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, seeing no takers to argue to keep this, I am restoring the redirect. --EEMIV (talk) 00:55, 5 September 2008 (UTC)