Talk:Omar Abdel-Rahman

charges

To Admin/jeff the changes that i made at the start of the intro on the 19th century us law is already referenced along with the charge i was only toning down the biased slant of this article that makes it seem like they had something against this person. These charges where based on suspicion on the part of the US over-reaction machine and in international law and basic common law suspicion does not necessitate a crime so please be objective. In his case they had to refer to a 19th century treason law which is very broad just like the new NDAA act to charge him and i was just highlighting this fact which the other biased writers don't see. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.20.13.77 (talk) 03:43, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Page moved

Moved this page because 'Sheik' is a title and shouldn't be in the page title. (ref: Walter Raleigh) Graft

Which prison is he in?

A New York Times article "Tape Tied to Al Qaeda Urges More Attacks in Iraq" (Sept 28, 2006) claims that he is in Springfield, Mo, USA.

Which prison is he really in?

ADX Florence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.153.207.55 (talk) 11:30, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

---

The first sentence of the article reads:

"Sheikh Omar Abdel-Rahman (Arabic: عمر عبد الرحمن‎) (born May 3, 1938) is a blind Egyptian Muslim leader who is currently serving a life sentence at the Butner Medical Center which is part of the Butner Federal Correctional Institution in Butner, North Carolina, United States. "

Yet the last sentence in the "Activities in the US" subsection reads:

"He is currently an inmate at ADX Florence, Colorado."

Which is accurate?

--posted by trealistorm (Ylanne Sorrows) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Trealistorm (talk • contribs) 00:36, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

He's all over the place, can't tell you how I know, but they don't want anyone to know where he is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.170.16.194 (talk) 06:07, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Better sources

This article has few sources its claims. Some links were gone or out of date, and not even from anywhere reliable. Since this is a newsworthy person and there should be plenty of references out there from news organizations, it shouldn't be hard. Wikipedia in general is moving in this direction.

The following link on the federal bureau of prisons demonstrates that as of 6/17/08, he is at Butner Federal Medical Center: http://www.bop.gov/iloc2/InmateFinderServlet?Transaction=NameSearch&needingMoreList=false&LastName=rahman&Middle=&FirstName=omar&Race=U&Sex=M&Age=&x=26&y=27 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Adamsjrcn (talk • contribs) 18:26, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Not convicted of...

I removed this piece fo text: 'not convicted of conspiring to bomb New York landmarks including the United Nations and FBI offices on October 1, 1995 nor were they convicted of the World Trade Center bombing of 1993, rather they were convicted under the US Civil War era law'. Can someone please demonstate how mentioning things they weren't convicted is notable? Were they tried and found not guilty, or is this just a rhetorical device? Ashmoo 02:08, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Proper transliteration, or lack therof

Jeez, that guy on the photo is the ugliest Santa ever seen! Ain't anybody a cute pic worthy of good ol' Umar "Handsome" abd al-Rahman?? And lest I forget: if nobody moves this article soon, some deeply hurt reindeer will - they got feelings too! Earnestly, speaking the contraction is ok, writing it is colloqial at best, poor from really, even if most English -and Arab- speakers don't know better - pls check Umar (name) and Harun al-Rashid. The wrong -though popular- form should become a redirect to the proper version.

The reader will then profit twofold: how to spell properly and how to become a pious man. --tickle me 15:25, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Seditious conspiracy? Now that's a trumped up charge if I ever heard one...... just plain rediculous. I'm not saying he's innocent, I'm just saying we need more specific laws to fit specific crimes. Also, does the encyclopedia really need to turn into Fox News? Non-stop terror alerts are exactly what don't need.

AgentSpion 18:54, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

It is concerning that someone would remove information about the legal processes that Omar Abdel-Rahman, the subject of the biographic entry, has undergone. In my view, it would have been preferable to amend the entry to indicate that the subject had been charged with specific criminal offences but subsequently acquitted at trial. While I can understand not wishing to perpetuate rumours and innuendoes, e.g. 'it is alleged....", Mr Abdel-Rahman did actually face court concerning these matters. As Wikipedia is supposed to be a reference source, deleting factual information could be construed as a form of censorship, especially if it precludes the reader from further research avenues concerning the events in question. Beacon Intelligence (talk) 03:28, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Claim associated with him

I've replaced the out of date Reuters source with an available one that I believe contains the same content. However, it doesn't seem to support the way the source is described, as a description of the 'will' of a person is far from an actual statement from them. Nimmo 11:02, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

question...

I question whether his sons' names are really Mohammed Omar Abdel-Rahman and Asim Abdulrahman. Arabic names don't have an inheritable lastname-surname. The first name of the father becomes the last name of the child. So each generation has a different last name.

If he followed the usual Arabic convention, and "Omar Abdel-Rahman" was his full name, wouldn't his son's names be Mohammed Omar and Asim Omar?

Cheers! Geo Swan (talk) 17:26, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

The names carry more than one generation, so you might be Abdullah son of Ahmed son of Muhammad son of Abdelrahim, thus Abdullah Ahmed Muhammad Abdelrahim (sometimes with the "bin" modifier). So his son Mohammed is correctly named Mohammed Omar Abdel-Rahman, while his son Asim is likely Asim Omar Abdel-Rahman in his full legal name. But "likely" isn't enough to warrant changing a WP article's name, imho. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sherurcij (talk • contribs) 12:54, 2009 July 18

Okay, so in your example, Abdullah's name is parsed, Abdullah (Ahmed (Muhammad (Abdelrahim)))? And he would be plain old "Abdullah Ahmed", except his great-grandfather was somebody famous? Geo Swan (talk) 14:40, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

from Al-Qaeda article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda

According to Peter Bergen, known for conducting the first television interview with Osama bin Laden in 1997, the idea that "the CIA funded bin Laden or trained bin Laden ...[is] a folk myth. There's no evidence of this. ... Bin Laden had his own money, he was anti-American and he was operating secretly and independently. ... The real story here is the CIA didn't really have a clue about who this guy was until 1996 when they set up a unit to really start tracking him." But as Bergen himself admitted, in one "strange incident" the CIA did appear to give visa help to mujahideen-recruiter Omar Abdel-Rahman.

The CIA connection doesn't appear here. anyone think it should? Eyalmc (talk) 12:51, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

References

Possible status as Emir

In the book In the name of Osama bin Laden: Global Terrorism and the Bin Laden Brotherhood by Roland Jacquard, alleged Zawahiri operative Ahmed al-Sayed al-Najar is cited as saying that Abdel-Rahman had been appointed Emir by Egyptian Islamic Jihad and Gamaa Islamiya on the advice of Osama bin Laden, and his appointment was approved specifically by Mustapha Hamza and Rifai Taha.

Can any other sources back this up, put a date on this event, and describe what it means for Abdul-Rahman to be "Emir" in this context?

Timing is a problem. If this occurred after 1990, it raises the question of why Egyptian groups would give a leadership position to someone who was expelled from Egypt. If this occurred before 1990, it places Osama in a more active and authoritative position in worldwide terrorism than most sources suggest for him in that time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dturover (talk • contribs) 07:09, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Bengazi connection

I work on the phone and spoke to a member of the US Defence dept. that told me that Bengazi was suppposed to be a kidnapping, which would have allowed Pres. Obama to release Omar Abdel Rahman in a trade with Pres. Morsi of Egypt without losing face. The military was told to stand down because of the "deal", but the Navy SEALS did not get the message and because they were attacking, the local Al Queda that were doing the kidnapping went berzerk and slaughtered everyone. Obviously, none of this can go public because Pres. Obama, Secy. of State Clinton, and several high ranking military officials would be destroyed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 8.14.187.175 (talk) 23:22, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Seditious conspiacy - looks like a guy who was pissed and said what he thought. Half of America could be in jail. 159.105.81.44 (talk) 14:30, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Except, uh, "bombs"...--Quisqualis (talk) 21:45, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

"Youth" section

The entire section is unreferenced.
--105.101.7.203 (talk) 00:48, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

livingdead

Edgars2007 which language wiki is Omar Abdel-Rahman reported as dead on? Can't see one. -- Callinus (talk) 04:02, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

@Callinus: (was reported) on Russian Wikipedia. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 17:34, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Omar Abdel-Rahman/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Comment(s)

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I'm relatively new to Wikipedia editing, so this may be in the wrong place. The reason I went to Omar Abdel-Rahman's page was to see if the convicted terrorist by this name was the same as the senior Al-Azhar professor of the same name, who is generally regarded as one of Islam's leading intellectuals. Because these occupations are not generally closely linked in the West, this association seemed a bit unlikely. My authority for thinking them combined is web pages like http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/3445 I also wonder if it might be a good idea to mention Abdel-Rahman's association with 'stealth jihad', the sort that claims that 125 pacifist and tolerant Qur'anic verses were not abrogated by suras 5:33 and 9:5, per Ibn Hazm's 11th-century al-Nasikh wa-Mansukh, because this is such a popular and misleading ploy these days. I may be a retired college professor, and I may have devoted 15 years to reading up on Islam--but my professional field was physical chemistry and oceanography, I don't read Arabic, the area is a minefield, I am at best a well-read amateur and layman, and I do not feel competent to edit. Ibn Hazm has never been translated into a European language, which means that it is inaccessible to nearly all western politicians. One can scarcely pretend to understand the Qur'an without it, so it is no wonder that confusion reigns! But maybe somebody who knows something could make these points for me with a bit more authority? (Are the 4 tildes enough to magically identify me?) I'm not trying to hide my name! Ferren (talk) 13:44, 18 January 2009 (UTC) what is wrong with Omar? he is nice guy set him free! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.106.28.226 (talk) 17:36, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Last edited at 17:36, 6 May 2010 (UTC). Substituted at 01:50, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Removal of list of those who extended condolences

A significant portion of the page was taken up by a list of all those who extended condolences upon Omar Abdel-Rahman's death. It was bizarre and didn't seem very noteworthy, so I removed it. If there is significance, can the list be condensed and the significance be spelled out? The edit was here: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Omar_Abdel-Rahman&type=revision&diff=771367551&oldid=771367196

Fogster (talk) 03:45, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

Arrest date correction for Abdel-Rahman

Regarding need of a citation for "Abdel-Rahman was arrested on 24 June 1993, along with nine of his followers":

https://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1993/06/27/276193.html?pageNumber=1 indicates "the Clinton Administration does not plan for now to arrest Mr. Abdel Rahman", but continues with "Six of the eight men arrested on Thursday ...", Thursday being 1993-06-24.

https://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1993/07/01/833293.html?pageNumber=23 indicates "A ninth suspect was arrested yesterday", so the ninth suspect was arrested 1993-06-30

https://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1993/07/03/issue.html indicates "Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman ... emerged from a Brooklyn mosque and surrendered to Federal authorities last night ... [He] walked on the arm of his lawyer shortly after 6 P.M. ... to a firehouse that had become a Federal command post" so his arrest date was 1993-07-02.

MgFrobozz (talk) 00:28, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

External links

There were eight entries in the "External links". Three seems to be an acceptable number and of course, everyone has their favorite to add for four. The problem is that none is needed for article promotion.

• ELpoints #3) states: Links in the "External links" section should be kept to a minimum. A lack of external links or a small number of external links is not a reason to add external links.
• LINKFARM states: There is nothing wrong with adding one or more useful content-relevant links to the external links section of an article; however, excessive lists can dwarf articles and detract from the purpose of Wikipedia. On articles about topics with many fansites, for example, including a link to one major fansite may be appropriate.
• ELMIN: Minimize the number of links. --
• ELCITE: Do not use {{cite web}} or other citation templates in the External links section. Citation templates are permitted in the Further reading section. -- Otr500 (talk) 00:22, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

Article issues and classification

I think this article was premature -- or -- bot wrongly-assessed. There are "unsourced statements" (citation needed) from 2007, 2008, 2017, and 2022.

The B-class criteria #1 states; The article is suitably referenced, with inline citations. It has reliable sources, and any important or controversial material which is likely to be challenged is cited., and #4, The article is reasonably well-written.

Reassess the article to C-class. -- Otr500 (talk) 04:19, 17 March 2023 (UTC)